iTunes, iMessage, and Vision Pro – Intego Mac Podcast Episode 331
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Kirk McElhearn
Why was Apple slow to remove a dangerous fake app copycat from the App Store? EU regulators change their tune on iMessage. Apple finally releases new media apps for Windows users. And the Vision Pro is shipping; we tried it out in an Apple Store.
- New Stealthy “RustDoor” Backdoor Targeting Apple macOS Devices
- Apple distributed a fake LastPass Password Manager in the App Store
- Apple officially splits up iTunes for Windows into separate apps
- Apple’s iMessage Avoids EU’s Digital Markets Act Regulation
- How to keep using Steam games on macOS Mojave after February 15, 2024
- Apple Vision Pro: What is it, and is it right for you? A hands-on review
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Transcript of Intego Mac Podcast episode 331
Voice Over 0:00
This is the Intego Mac podcast—the voice of Mac security—for Thursday February 15 2024. This week’s Intego Mac Podcast security headlines include: Why was Apple slow to remove a dangerous fake app copycat from the App Store? EU regulators changed their tune on iMessage. Apple finally releases new media apps for Windows users. And the Vision Pro is shipping-we took an Apple Store test view. Now, here are the hosts of the Intego Mac podcast: Veteran Mac journalist, Kirk McElhearn. And Intego’s Chief Security Analyst, Josh Long.
Kirk McElhearn 0:44
Good morning, Josh. How are you today?
Josh Long 0:46
I’m doing well. How are you, Kirk?
Kirk McElhearn 0:48
I’m doing just fine. I’m looking at the show notes that you’ve put in and you’re talking about something written in Rust. Isn’t that a Neil Young song?
What is RustDoor malware?
Josh Long 0:56
Rust is a programming language and we have started to see more malware written in Rust. Remember, we talked about RustBucket last year? (Oh, right. )Okay, well, now we’ve got a new Rust based malware. This one is called RustDoor. RustDoor is backdoor malware that’s written in Rust. A backdoor is malware that gives a threat actor access to your computer. So they can connect to it. They can send commands to it, they can tell it to exfiltrate your data or whatever it is they might want to use it for. Maybe they use it as part of a distributed denial of service attack as part of the botnet. But there’s all sorts of things that backdoor malware can do. A lot of times, it’s just used to spy on you and steal your data and things like that. Do you need to worry about it? What do you think Kirk? What do we always answer?
Kirk McElhearn 1:47
I think if you’re running Intego Virus Barrier X9, then you absolutely don’t need to worry about it. Because we have already updated the virus definitions.
Josh Long 1:54
Yeah, you’re safe if you’re using Intego Virus Barrier, so no need to worry.
Kirk McElhearn 1:59
The one thing I want to point out is ,yes, I remember RustBucket, but I don’t remember Rust is a programming language. I don’t think I’ve really heard of the I’m not a developer, but I am aware of the names of programming languages. Is this something new? Is this popular for some reason?
Josh Long 2:12
Rust has been around since 2015. So it’s not brand new, but it is starting to increase in popularity somewhat. Another one that we’ve seen a lot of malware start to get programmed in is Go, which has been around actually even longer. It started in 2009. But both of these are languages that have been increasingly interesting to threat actors. They’ve started experimenting with more Mac malware written in Go and Rust.
Kirk McElhearn 2:38
Is this because it’s harder to detect them because they’re unfamiliar programming languages.
Josh Long 2:43
No, and it doesn’t particularly matter what language these apps are programmed in, will still be able to detect them just as easily. Maybe it’s just has something to do with the how comfortable certain developers are. Developers of malware are in with particular languages. Maybe that’s what they learned in school, maybe that’s what you know, they read about online, maybe it’s just a matter of they found some samples of malware that happened to be written in some of these other languages. And so they thought, oh, cool, I could adapt that and make my own malware based on that.
Apple may have been slow to remove a fake LastPass app from the App Store
Kirk McElhearn 3:15
Okay, so we have been hearing for years how safe the App Store is the App Store for iOS and for Mac. And yet again, another fake app was found in the App Store. And this one’s serious, this isn’t just a random app. This is an app pretending to be a password manager.
Josh Long 3:31
That’s right. So this was kind of a problem. We don’t know exactly how long this had been in the App Store. But it was sometime between January 16 And February 4. And on February 4, there were a couple of people who had left negative reviews of this app, give it one star and said that this is not the real LastPass probably a scam to steal passwords. And a couple other people left similar warnings on February 6, but it didn’t start to get more mainstream notice until February 7, when LastPass wrote a blog post about this. And then it really blew up on February 8, everybody, all the major tech press was writing about this and saying there’s a fake LastPass app in the App Store. So what really happened here, well, wasn’t called Last Pass, it was called The Last Pass L A S S P A S S. It’s so close to how LastPass password manager was spelled. And they even used an icon that was very similar, same exact color scheme. No, it doesn’t look exactly like it. But it’s so close, that this should have been something really obvious to whoever reviewed this app and decided that oh, yeah, sure. No problem. Let’s include this in the App Store.
Kirk McElhearn 4:50
I want to give a little pushback on that really obvious when you’ve got we don’t know how they’re trained. You’ve got these people we don’t know how they’re trained. They get know these App Store not spending much time looking at them, they may not be experts in password managers and recognize the icon. It doesn’t surprise me that this happens. I think it’s worth pointing out that last pass the official LastPass is an app that we don’t recommend and recommend that people avoid, actually, because they had problems with data breaches, which actually let hackers get into people’s data vaults. So access their passwords. So I don’t know if the actual LastPass is any worse than this fake one. But I think the problem with review is, is that there are just too many apps and they can’t compare them. And they don’t have the skills to look at these the way you and I would, you would think that there would be certain categories that they would have to check more carefully, right, somebody that says it’s a password manager, that should spark a more thorough review than normal apps? I doubt that’s the case. But I don’t know.
Josh Long 5:54
Well, that’s exactly right. And I 100% agree with you on that point. Because if you’re talking about a password manager, it has to be something that you know, that you can trust, it’s using good encryption, it’s not exfiltrating your data like we don’t know what this fake LastPass app did, whether it was doing anything overtly malicious, I haven’t seen any breakdown yet where somebody reverse engineered it, and you know, examined exactly what it did. But in any case, thankfully, it was taken off of the App Store. On February 8, later in the day, eventually, after everybody had written about this, Apple quietly pulled it down. So they did remove it. But it took a while. The reason why it might have been as early as January 16. If you happen to download this on a Mac, and look inside of the app binary, you’ll find that most of the modification dates are going to show January 16. So that means that the app was compiled on that date. Now, when exactly was submitted to the App Store and approved in the App Store, we don’t know. Interestingly, you could also maybe consider this the first Apple Vision Pro malware, because this app could also be run on the Vision Pro.
Kirk McElhearn 7:05
Because it’s an iPad app, or because there was an iPad version of the app.
Josh Long 7:09
Well, yeah, so it’s it’s an app that was designed for iOS and iPadOS. But because you can frequently run iPad apps on a Mac, you can also download it onto a Mac through the Mac App Store. And you can also download it on to a Vision Pro, because of course the you can download many iPad and iPhone apps on the Vision Pro as well.
Apple officially releases separate Media apps for Windows, retires iTunes
Kirk McElhearn 7:28
Speaking of the Vision Pro, we’re going to talk about that new hardware device in the second half of this podcast because Josh tried one out. But first, let’s get back to Apple, finally officially splitting up iTunes into separate apps. And we talked about this, I believe was last October, when Apple had made preview versions of some of these apps available on the Microsoft Store. Now there are final versions. So if you look at Apple’s apps on the Microsoft Store, you have iTunes, we’ll discuss that in a minute why there is still an iTunes app, you have an iCloud app, you have Apple Music, Apple TV, and Apple devices, Music and TV, they do what you would expect. The Apple devices app is what you would use to sync an Apple device to your Windows computer. Most people don’t think anymore, everything’s in the cloud. But you still need that possibility sync and backup, which you do in the Finder right now. Now, interestingly, they still have a version of iTunes. And Josh was a bit surprised to see that.
Josh Long 8:25
Yeah, like I understand maybe keeping it around for some period of time. And eventually, you’re going to remove it. By the way, Kirk did try to install some of the new apps. And they’re not ARM compatible. So if you have a version of Windows for ARM running on your Mac and a virtual machine, you’re not going to be able to install the new apps. That’s kind of odd. But I mean, you don’t really need them anyway, because you’re on a Mac. And so you can use the Mac native apps.
EU regulators decide not to impose iMessage interoperability with other protocols
Kirk McElhearn 8:52
It’s not just that if you have an ARM based PC, you can’t use these new apps. I think 14% of PCs sold last year were ARM based. And so the arm type processor is very popular on laptops, because it’s better battery life. So that means that Apple is not making these new apps available to every Windows user. worth pointing out that certain types of apps can be emulated on an ARM processor, but not the way Apple made these apps. We won’t go into too much detail because this isn’t a Windows podcast. But it is interesting that Apple has finally gotten rid of iTunes or is finally getting ready to get rid of iTunes or is finally about to maybe get rid of iTunes, and we’ll see it around for a little bit. But that’s it. We’ve been talking about Apple’s iMessage a lot recently, because if you remember there was that app, I totally forgot its name already that tried to get iMessage on Android phones and it didn’t work. And then they tried another deeper meaning deeper Mini. That’s what it was. You see, we’ve mentioned that name so many times and we decided we would strike it from our memory because it was such a disaster. Well, we talked about the digital markets act in the European Union last week. And the digital markets act determined the gatekeeper companies and which of their products they consider to be important enough to be regulated by this act. In other words, which ones, a company had a dominant position in the marketplace in. And they chose a number of Apple things such as App Stores on iOS, etc. But they have determined that iMessage is not popular enough in the European Union, to merit regulation.
Josh Long 10:26
That’s probably a good thing, at least for my opinion. Now, obviously, there are different points of view on this. But I’ve always been kind of, I’ve always felt like it didn’t really make sense for iMessage, to have to open up or to have to, you know, somehow be cross compatible with Android apps and things. It didn’t really make a lot of sense to me. And so I’m okay with this ruling. Now, maybe there are people who will disagree with me, I know there gonna be people who disagree with me on this point. But I don’t feel like it makes sense that Apple should be forced to open up the iMessage protocol to third party developers. As I’ve said before, there’s a lot of functionality specific to iMessage that is specific to Apple platforms, like the ability to, you know, do Apple Pay and the animations, you know, you can send a message and have it do fireworks in the background or things like that. That kind of experience. If you open that up to third party developers, it’s not going to be a great experience on the Android side of things, if some other developers having to implement those things, or you might be missing that functionality. That’s just not a good experience. If you’re using iMessage. It should be iMessage. That’s my opinion. Okay,
Kirk McElhearn 11:38
We’re going to take a break. When we come back, we’re going to talk about the Vision Pro and more.
Voice Over 11:44
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Steam will no longer support games on older versions of macOS
Kirk McElhearn 13:00
Okay, before we get to the Vision Pro, we want to warn people who use Steam on a Mac and who have old games, we have an article on the Intego Max security blog, entitled How to keep using Steam games on macOS Mojave after February 15 2024. And you know what if you’re listening to this podcast on the day it’s released it is February 15 2024. Steam has decided to not support Macs running MacOS Mojave and High Sierra and a lot of people don’t run them Steam says only 2% of Mac’s using the Steam app run these operating systems, but you may have one of them for those old games that you want to play. And if you don’t have copies of those games, now you should download them. So you won’t lose them. Because Steam will no longer be providing those games. I don’t know if you can download games from developers and then use them in Steam. I don’t know how that works. I know Steam is basically a wrapper around games, it’s basically an App Store, right? And you download the games and it’s the games themselves at launch. So you might be able to get some of them other than from Steam, but then you would have to buy them, I assume because Steam is an App Store.
Josh Long 14:04
And the reason why you might be still keeping an old Mac around to run some of these games that you got from the Steam Store is that some of these older games are designed with 32 bit code. And that basically means that they’re not going to run on more modern versions of Mac OS. And so some people have decided, okay, well, I’m going to keep an old Mac around as a gaming machine specifically to play my old games that won’t run on my new Mac. And so if you’re one of those people, just make sure that you’ve got Steam fully up to date. Make sure you’ve got those games downloaded and make sure that you launch them at least once just to make sure that if there’s any first time setup, things, that those are all taken care of for you so that you can hopefully continue to play those games in the future. Now you may not have online functionality in the future for some of those titles. In fact, some of them are probably so old at this point that they may not work at all if they required internet that connectivity, but at the very least, take a look at your Steam library if you if you’ve ever bought any games or downloaded any free games through Steam, and make sure that you can still play them on your old Mac.
What is the Vision Pro demo at an Apple Store like?
Kirk McElhearn 15:10
Okay, we said we would talk about Apple’s Vision Pro and we have an article on the Indigo Mac security blog explaining what the Vision Pro is, who is it for an recounting Josh’s experience at an Apple Store trying it out? Let’s talk about what the Vision Pro is first. A lot of our listeners may not be paying attention to all the videos of people driving their Tesla’s while they’re wearing a Vision Pro. And seeing you know all the ridiculous uses of this. It’s basically a VR goggle. And we discussed this a couple of weeks ago and you’ve got an Oculus, I think and you can play games on it. You could buy five Oculus goggles for the cost of one Vision Pro is that it? Something like that.
Josh Long 15:48
Something like that. They’re called Meta Quest now, but yes, it was called I think Oculus II I think is what I have.
Kirk McElhearn 15:53
Yeah. So it’s kind of like the difference between a Datsun and a Ferrari in a way, do they still make Datsuns? I’m thinking back in the old day that Datsun was the prototype of a cheap car. It’s a fancy device, it’s expensive at $3,500. What it does is augmented reality and virtual reality. And Apple calls it spatial computing, which I don’t know, you know, they came out with spatial audio as a term for what’s more commonly called immersive audio. Now, spatial computing is the idea that it’s like Minority Report kind of, but you move around and you see things in a virtual plane in front of you. We discussed this recently. And it’s it for me it’s really a solution in search of a problem. It’s too new a device with too few really killer apps to make any sense. For now, it’s basically running well, it can run iPad apps, it can mirror the screen of your Mac. And there can be some sorts of native apps. And from what I’ve read, the watching a movie with the Vision Pro is quite impressive. You can have this really big, immersive screen. But it’s a first generation device. It’s got a long way to go. And we sent Josh out on assignment to his local Apple store to try it out over the weekend. Why don’t you tell us about your experience? Josh, you should have gone there with a microphone and recorded or a GoPro and you should have recorded the whole thing.
Josh Long 17:14
Yeah, I’m not sure if they would have let me do that. But in any case, I did try it out. So I signed up for the 30 minute demo. And and went into to see exactly what this device would do. And obviously, I kind of had some idea in advance because you know, they do have, there have been some several videos that Apple has put out kind of showing what the experience is like, and even instructing on how to use it. So you don’t necessarily need to go and experience it in person to get a pretty good idea of most of the functionality. Now, it’s interesting that you mentioned that watching a movie is one of the really positive experiences as part of this 30 minute demo, they do have you try out the Mario movie in 3d. And you you can, you know, expand the window as much as you want. Now, there are ways that you can sort of put sort of a blackout curtain around you so that the movie is the only thing that you’re able to see. And that’s probably the experience that you would want to have if you were, for example on an airplane and just wanted to block everything else out and enjoy your movie in private, right? You couldn’t do that the 3d experience is is okay. I mean, granted, I only tried it out for a few seconds, because we had to move on to the next part of the demonstration. But it was alright, it wasn’t quite as impressive as I hoped it would be. But I guess one nice thing that I can say about it is because you can expand the viewing window, you can have it go to kind of the ends of your peripheral vision. So it’ll feel a little bit more like you’re actually there in the movie, from at least that certain perspective.
Kirk McElhearn 18:55
So one thing that I find a little bit disturbing is in all of the videos that I’ve seen, so you can record video on the device. And a lot of people have done these reviews, and you can find them on YouTube. All of the videos show people with the screens in front of them and their surroundings behind them. And a lot of the windows have translucent elements. And this seems to be really distracting. You know, one thing about working on my Mac is I’ve got a desktop background behind my windows. And I’m not seeing the stuff on my wall. I’m not seeing my cat walk by or I’m not seeing the light come through the windows, it doesn’t distract. And I find that a little disturbing. Now you said you can put a background in. I think people are showing it with this. I want to say augmented reality, which is the sense of you’re seeing your actual surroundings with something on top of it. They’re using this as a demonstration to show that you’re in a situation right instead of being blocked off. But it doesn’t seem to me very productive. Now Apple’s touting this as a productivity device that you can work with apps and did you try to type on that virtual keyboard which is, you know, as someone who touch types, I can’t imagine like typing on that keyboard in the air.
Josh Long 20:06
That was not part of the demo. And maybe there’s a good reason for that. It’s probably not a very good experience. From what I’ve read, apparently.
Kirk McElhearn 20:12
You can connect a Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad but not a bluetooth mouse. So you can do typing if you’re a touch typer. But the whole process just seems kind of convoluted, like it’s being more complicated than should instead of simplifying computing, it’s making it more complicated. So one of the things that you do to prepare for your visit, so your 30 minute demo is a lot of things. It’s showing you the device, but it’s also getting the device to fit you. How does this process begin?
Josh Long 20:43
Okay, so first of all, when you so this is assuming that you’re going to go through the demo at an official Apple Store, right? So the first part of the process is you have to book your reservation. And when you do that, in your Apple Store app on your phone, you have to select whether you have any vision impairments, whether you use glasses, and then they ask you do you use contacts? If you answer no to both like me, then there’s no other part of that process. And then you just show up at your appointment. So the next thing is when you get to your appointment, they will have you scan a QR code on your phone that opens up in your Apple Store app. And then it gives you this thing where you’ve got to turn left and right and up and down. It’s using the LIDAR that’s built into your iPhone to look at your face. You know, it’s the same technology they use for FaceID, right, it’s looking at your face and getting an idea for what size light seal you need.
Kirk McElhearn 21:42
Right. So as you said, it’s the same technology at FaceID, it creates a 3D model of your face. It knows how far away the phone is from your face, because it knows the amount of time it takes to read the lights or whatever. And there are lots of light seals, I thought there was like six or eight and you said the Apple store employee said there were about 100 of them. Now it kind of makes sense. Because people have different size heads and the curvature on the face is different. The size of your nose is different. It seems an overly fastidious process to have to have 100 different light seals, and how many of them will get a bell curve, half of them will probably never be used. It seems like a lot of expense to try and get this device to fit. And maybe there are other ways to do it.
Josh Long 22:24
Yeah. And if you have multiple people in your family that you want to share this device with? Well, you’re going to need ideally, you would need a separate light seal for each one of them. Because you probably have a different shape of face, you know, different facial structure. And so yeah, you’re not going to have a perfect experience if you’re using somebody else’s light seal necessarily.
Kirk McElhearn 22:44
Well, what was your experience? Like when you got the first light seal?
Josh Long 22:48
Yeah, so they brought it out based on again, the mapping of my face, right? And it took a while for it to fully fit correctly. And I pointed this out a couple of times right at the beginning of the demo, I’m like, Well, you know, I’m still seeing this big gap right here on the underside, where I’m getting a lot of light bleeding through like it’s a big gap. And so one of the other Apple employees who was kind of assisting the person giving me the demo said try moving the back of the headband down. Oh, no, try moving it up. Okay, no trying, twisting that little side adjuster thingy on the on the right side. And so finally, we got it so that it closed up. And now I didn’t have those big giant gaps. But I still had a gap over my nose. And I pointed this out to the Apple Store employees. And they were like, oh, yeah, that’s normal. And I’m like, Well, I still got like bleeding through let’s normal.
Kirk McElhearn 23:44
Like you went to all this trouble at $500. That’s not normal. Yeah, that seemed weird, right?
Josh Long 23:48
I mean, now I know. It’s not, it’s not a lot of light bleed through. But the fact that it was distracting to me and then after, like I had
Kirk McElhearn 23:56
$3,500. Any white bleeding through is too much light bleeding through. It’s simple. This is not a $500 game thing. The thing is, we were talking about this before, if you’ve ever had a crown of a tooth, they do a mold with a type of plastic that hardens really quickly. That’s what they need to put on your face, something like that, to get the exact shape of your face. Either they’re assuming that the wider gets the exact shape and maybe it does well enough. Or they need to make custom light seals instead of fitting you with one of the 100 different ones. Maybe they need 1000 Different,
Josh Long 24:31
I see an opportunity for third party aftermarket light seals.
Kirk McElhearn 24:35
Yeah, custom light seals. But as you said, if you want to share it with people in your family, they each need their own light seals as well. What do you do when you’ve got a kid who’s 12 years old and he turns 13 and his face shape has changed and he’s gotten a little bit bigger. I mean, for adults, Your face isn’t going to change a lot but for children as they grow it’s a big difference. I don’t know how much they cost. I don’t think they’re very expensive. I think that $30 or something if you want to buy additional one wins. But still, that seems like for all the magic of the Vision Pro, that seems like you’re seeing behind the curtain there about the difficulty of getting this to fit on people’s faces. I’m just thinking of, I’m not a skier, I’ve been skiing a few times in my life, and I’ve hurt myself skiing, so I don’t do it anymore. But ski goggles have that soft foam that fits on any face. And it’s not trying to be some fancy Johnny, I’ve designed light seal, it’s just soft foam. And maybe Apple needs a different type of foam that’s more adaptable to different faces.
Josh Long 25:33
Okay, so I need to talk about what I actually did find impressive, because most of the demo was not really that impressive to me, again, I kind of already had a pretty good idea of what to expect going into it. So the thing that I really wanted to see is okay, so I know a lot of the stuff but I want to see like, is there anything that actually feels magical and is different from what you see in all these product demonstrations that are filmed and available online, right. The one thing that I have to say that Apple has done far better than meta has done at this point is immersive experiences. Now, I kind of briefly mentioned that there are like landscape type things that so if you want to be in, I think Yosemite is one of them, there’s a beach, there’s like kind of an open plane in the middle of a forest at night or something like that. And these kinds of experiences are really interesting. And of course, you can put up your, you know, work environment in them. If you want, you can put up apps in these environments. But if you just want something for meditation, that could be a really nice experience to just, you know, sit there and enjoy and listen to the sound effects and watch water ripple in front of you and things like that. That’s a kind of cool experience. But the really amazing one better than anything else. And I wish that they had spent a little more time on this. And the demo is that they give you 32nd clips of videos that are available to download. If you have Vision Pro, that are fully immersive experiences where you can look left, you can look right up and down. And it feels like you’re actually there. And they gave one of these 32nd clips is Alicia Keys doing like a practice session where she’s singing into a microphone, she’s a few feet in front of you. And she’s got her drink sitting on top of a piano next to you. And it really feels like you’re there in the room with her. There’s another one where a rhinoceros, a baby rhinoceros walks right up to you and stops right in front of you. And it feels like you can reach right out and touch it’s worn. It feels like it’s right there, you’re looking down at it. And it doesn’t interrupt to the experience like you’re actually looking down, you’re turning your head down to look at it. And it’s right there in front of you. Those kinds of experiences are something that you can’t get anywhere else. That’s what Apple really needs to be developing lots of content in that area. And really selling the apple Vision Pro as a device designed for those kinds of experiences. Because it blew my mind like this was way better than anything I had expected.
Kirk McElhearn 28:21
So I see a market for virtual cat videos for the Vision Pro.
Josh Long 28:26
I can imagine a lot of different things that people might want to experience in this way.
Kirk McElhearn 28:31
Well, games to start with, we won’t we won’t talk about the P word, which is certainly going to start appearing on the Vision Pro, games, there are a lot of games that could work like that, where you’re actually going to interact with things with your hands. But the problem is with games, you’re generally supposed to be moving. And if you’re walking forward, you hit a wall. And I know that’s a problem already with the existing game goggles like that. But that does sound interesting. And what you’re saying there is something I haven’t heard much from reviewers talking about these, you know, really immersive videos. And it does sound like this could be a new form of cinema that filmmakers working with this could make something really interesting, but you wouldn’t get someone to spend $3,500 plus $200 for a case plus $500 for Apple Care, just to watch a few movies.
Josh Long 29:20
Exactly. It’s a bit of a hard sell at this point. It’s it’s it’s too expensive for the vast majority of people, myself included. I don’t feel like I could justify spending that kind of money on this kind of device. As much as it’s kind of a cool experience. No, it’s It’s too expensive right now.
Kirk McElhearn 29:37
Okay, that’s enough for this week. Until next week, Josh stay secure.
Josh Long 29:40
Alright, stay secure.
Voice Over 29:43
Thanks for listening to the Intego Mac podcast, the voice of Mac security with your host, Kirk McElhearn and Josh Long. To get every weekly episode, be sure to follow us on Apple Podcasts, or subscribe in your favorite podcast app. And, if you can, leave a rating, a like or review. Links to topics and information mentioned in the podcast can be found in the show notes for the episode at podcast.intego.com. The Intego website is also where to find details on the full line of Intego security and utility software. intego.com.
