Apple has released iOS 17 and iPadOS 17, along with new versions of operating systems for the Apple Watch, Apple TV, and HomePod. We discuss some of our favorite new features. We also look at radiation fears in France for the iPhone 12, and we examine why Apple may want to build a stock trading service into its devices. One correction: Standby Mode doesn’t require a MagSafe charger, but just needs to be plugged in and on its side.
- Chromebooks will get 10 years of automatic updates
- Apple to Launch ‘Low-Cost’ MacBook Series Next Year to Rival Chromebooks
- Apple Now Encrypts Titles of Voice Memos Stored in iCloud on iOS 17 and macOS Sonoma for Added Privacy
- France demands Apple pull iPhone 12 due to high RF radiation levels
- Apple and Goldman Sachs Planned to Launch iPhone Stock Trading Feature Last Year
- The Signal Protocol used by 1+ billion people is getting a post-quantum makeover
- Top 12 New Features in iOS 17 and iPadOS 17
- iOS 17 is probably hitting your battery hard today — but that’s expected
- The Complete Guide to Apple MagSafe Chargers, Cases, and Accessories
If you like the Intego Mac Podcast podcast, be sure to rate and review it on Apple Podcasts.
Have a question? Ask us! Contact Intego via email if you have any questions you want to hear discussed on the podcast, or to provide feedback and ideas for upcoming podcast episodes.
Transcript of Intego Mac Podcast episode 310
Voice Over 0:00
This is the Intego Mac Podcast–the voice of Mac security–for Thursday, September 21 2023.
This week’s Intego Mac Podcast security headlines include: except for macOS, which is due next week, Apple has updated all its operating systems. We have some favorite features in iOS 17 and iPadOS 17. Google increases the number of years that some Chromebooks will receive updates. Is Apple paying attention? Meanwhile, Apple adds a bit of encryption to Voice Memos. Radiation from iPhones is still a fear in France, and Apple has reacted. Will stock trading ever come to Apple devices? And should it? Now here are the hosts of the Intego Mac Podcast. Veteran Mac journalist, Kirk McElhearn. And Intego’s Chief Security Analyst, Josh Long.
Kirk McElhearn 0:58
Good morning, Josh, how are you today?
Josh Long 1:00
I’m doing well. How are you? Kirk?
Apple updated all but its macOS operating system this week
Kirk McElhearn 1:02
I’m just fine. It’s Wednesday, September 20. On Monday, I spent a lot of time downloading software and updating my devices. What about you?
Josh Long 1:10
Yep, yeah, we got a lot of updates. This week, we’ve got the new iOS 17, as well as iPadOS 17, watch os 10 and TV OS 17. And by the way, if you have a HomePod, you also got AudioOS 17 as well.
Kirk McElhearn 1:25
When did they call that AudioOS? I don’t remember that.
Josh Long 1:29
Yeah, it’s not really something that Apple ever really says. And by the way, it never shows up. Not once has it ever shown up on the Apple security updates page. So it’s kind of one of those like hidden behind the scenes names. It’s not really something that Apple talks about.
Kirk McElhearn 1:46
The HomePod is a little bit strange, because you sort of expect it to update automatically. Now you can force an update if you go into the Home app and you find the right place. But it’s generally something where they don’t expect you to be…to pay attention, they don’t expect you to be notified either. Any other Apple device you have, if it updates automatically, you will be told that your devices updated to this version of the software, and the HomePod, you never really know. I would kind of expect them to give you a notification on your phone or iPad or Mac or whatever.
Josh Long 2:17
Ideally, they would do that. It’s interesting that Apple has said in the past that they wait a little while to push out updates. And by the way, they do this for both operating system updates, as well as for App Store app updates. If you want the latest operating system and you know that the latest operating system is out, you can manually check for it and install it. We know that iOS 17 has a bunch of security fixes. Apple’s not actually telling us what they are yet, I think they’re probably waiting until macOS Sonoma comes out before giving the full reveal because a lot of these things affect macOS Sonoma, which comes out next week. But iOS 17 has lots of security fixes as well, we know that they that it does just because every major OS release does. But if you go in and check for updates on your iPhone, you’re going to be told that your iPhone is up to date if it’s on the latest version of iOS 16. And you have to look at the bottom and it says also available iOS 17, which is kind of like really Apple Why are you doing this? Like, are they trying to discourage people from upgrading quickly?
Kirk McElhearn 3:29
Well, they started this a couple of years ago. And the logic was that if you want it to stay on the previous operating system, you could and you wouldn’t be forced to upgrade automatically because you had set the setting and you didn’t know. And what was it 37 days before… (Thirty-six days, yeah.) 36 days before there was an update that wasn’t pushed to the previous operating system, which means that they’re kind of prodding some people to not be secure.
Josh Long 3:56
Well, yeah. So I think they released one more update for whatever it was iOS 14 I think at the time, at 36 days later, and then that was it. Like they never released another update. And it’s like, why did they tell people you could stay behind on the older operating system if they weren’t actually going to be releasing a bunch of updates for it. So I’m curious to see what Apple actually does this year, because now we’ve got a few years worth of iOS updates where something got cut off. So you’ve got some devices that are limited to iOS 15 Some that are limited now to iOS 16. Because the iPhone 10 and the iPhone 8, which both came out the same year, even though they sound like they came out two years apart. But remember the 10 was the letter X. Those two phones came out the same year and both got cut off this year from iOS 17 updates. So if you have those phone models, just parenthetically, I think we’ve mentioned this before, it’s probably a good time to upgrade to a newer iPhone model because you’re not going to get—even if Apple does release some security updates for iOS 16, it’s not going to be all of the updates based on everything that we know about all past Apple’s security updates. They patch everything for the current and some stuff, maybe for the previous operating systems.
Kirk McElhearn 5:16
That reminds me of something I read a week or two ago, Google is going to be offering 10 years of security updates for Chromebooks.
Josh Long 5:24
Yes, I’m glad that you brought that up. Because this is something that Apple users should be aware of. If you’re thinking you just need something to browse the web, I can’t really say that a MacBook is necessarily the best buy, the baseline MacBook, is a lot more expensive than even some really good Chromebooks, you can get them for pretty cheap, because they don’t require really good hardware. They don’t require necessarily a lot of RAM and all that kind of stuff. You’re basically just running a browser as your operating system. And Chrome OS has actually evolved a little bit they do allow you to install Android apps and stuff like that now, which is a very clunky experience from what I’ve seen. But Chrome OS is basically just a browser as an operating system, and to have 10 years of updates. Yeah. So I think if I remember right, Chromebooks released, what was it from December 2021, or something, and later, you can get 10 years of updates instead of just the five that they had been promising before, which is a really big deal, because now these devices have so much more longevity, this is really good for education and other markets that are really into using Chromebooks. And also not such a great thing for Apple, unless, unless Apple decides to either release a cheaper model, or to start supporting them for longer will Apple actually do that? I don’t know. I don’t know at this point, what how interested Apple is in really competing in that education market that Chromebooks are dominating.
Kirk McElhearn 7:06
There were some rumors recently about Apple preparing a low cost laptop. And when we discussed this, I said to you Apple products are thin clients now, because you can do so much t hat doesn’t depend on your device, you can do so much in the cloud. And it’s not the same model with the Chromebook, which is though a browser as you said, but with iCloud, with apps with iCloud with Google Docs with Microsoft Office Online. With all of these things, you can do an awful lot without needing much processing power without needing much storage. So if Apple does go that route, they would have to compete with Chromebooks. Now, while you were talking, I looked up a website that lists the best Chromebooks for 2023. And it starts with one at 649 says that’s expensive, and then here’s one to 279. And then here’s one at 570, then here’s one of the 429. So for 300 bucks, you can get a really decent Chromebook. And all it is, is a web browser with a keyboard. And you could also get a tablet that is a Chromebook, which might not even have the keyboard.
Josh Long 8:14
And there’s lots of different options, of course, because there’s so many different hardware vendors, you can get whatever you want, just like an Android device in the sense that there’s so many manufacturers, you want a touch screen, great, you got to touch screen, whatever feature you’re looking for, you can find it on some Chromebook model. The Apple ecosystem is very different. You’ve got one manufacturer, and you get whatever handful of devices. Apple thinks that makes sense right now for the market. Will Apple release a low end Mac? I don’t know. I don’t know whether they’re really all that interested in going for that cheap laptop market.
Kirk McElhearn 8:49
No, but I can see, my guess is that in the spaceship, they’ve got a team working on a Mac Chromebook or “Safari Book”, let’s call it where it does the same thing as a Chromebook. It’s, you know, not much processor, not much RAM, and can access the cloud. I’m sure they’re working on it, whether they’re going to release it or not. Because Chrome OS works with a lot of plugins you can have with Chrome. So it’s more than just the browser, Apple would have to do similar things. Anyway, we’re going to talk about that at some point in the future because I want to make a quick teaser next week, we’re gonna have a special report about some new Mac malware that you have been reverse engineering.
Josh Long 9:26
That’s right, the team at Intego has been picking this apart, and we’ll have a good write up for it in the very near future.
Apple begins encryption of Voice Memos metadata
Kirk McElhearn 9:33
Okay, so in other security news, this is a tiny little change in Apple privacy, but it’s actually one that makes sense. And I’m surprised that they didn’t do this before but Apple is now encrypting the titles of Voice Memos that are stored in iCloud on iOS 17 and macOS Sonoma. When you record a Voice Memo, it records your location, the date and the time. It doesn’t ask you when you’re finished, would you like to name this Voice Memo you can go back I can name it later. But it’s not something that it prompts you to do. So I have all these Voice Memos in my devices because they sync to the cloud. And it’s like, here’s my home location. And here’s what I recorded. I have no idea what I said. But now they’re going to encrypt the titles of the Voice Memos, which means if someone accesses your account, they cannot find that you are at a certain location at a certain date and time.
Josh Long 10:21
Sometimes this can be very useful to have an auto name, I agree with you, it does feel a little bit weird that it doesn’t sort of prompt you to name it after you’re done recording. But at the very least, it does give you some idea of where it was recorded, which can sometimes be useful information. However, it can also sometimes give an exact address, which can reveal exactly where you were and may reveal, for example, if you’re recording something at home, it might reveal your home address. And I agree with you, I’m really surprised that Apple wasn’t already doing that.
France compels Apple to reduce iPhone 12’s RF radiation levels
Kirk McElhearn 10:53
Okay, so France is in the news, because they have demanded that Apple withdraw the iPhone 12, due to high RF radio frequency radiation levels. They’re not selling the iPhone 12 anymore, they stopped selling it when the 15 came out. So the 12 was the cheap one, they were selling the 12, 13 and 14, now they’re selling the 13, 14 and 15. Worth noting, I spent about half my life in France, and in the very early days of mobile phones, they were all freaked out about the radiation from phones. And I think they were the first country to mandate that you have what they call a hands free kit. So basically, earbuds with a microphone that plugs into the phone. And there was always a lot of back and forth on this, well, you’d have to have the phone next to your ear for six hours a day. It’s not when the phones in your hand are in your pocket, but they’re still reacting. And apparently the RF radiation levels are a bit too high. Apple’s not pulling the iPhone, but what they’re doing is they’re issuing a firmware update to how should we say make the iPhone less powerful.
Josh Long 11:54
Right to make the radio less powerful so that it won’t admit so much radiation. It’s not clear yet whether Apple is going to release that update globally for all iPhone 12 units or whether this is going to be something that somehow they limit to just rolling out in France. In any case, yeah, Apple’s not even selling the iPhone 12 in France anymore, not even refurbished, at least not on their website. They don’t sell any iPhones refurbished on the French Apple Store online. This is one of those things where like the government is a little bit behind the curve.
Kirk McElhearn 12:25
Well, I think it’s the kind of thing where they have to investigate for a certain amount of time, and they’ve been investigating for years. And they finally get around to passing a law or getting something approved by regulators. And by the time they do it, it’s too late. So if you do have an iPhone 12, in France, you’ll get an update, your phone won’t be as good.
Josh Long 12:42
And I guess maybe where this also could be beneficial is if anyone is still selling an iPhone 12. Other than Apple, I guess they would be prohibited from selling the iPhone 12 as well until this update comes out.
Apple foregoes previously announced stock trading feature
Kirk McElhearn 12:54
Yeah, they’re probably not going to stop everyone selling on eBay or other third party sellers. I don’t know how well they can do that. Anyway, we want to briefly talk about something that came out that didn’t happen that was supposed to happen, that might have happened. And that kind of made us think a little bit according to a number of reports, Apple and Goldman Sachs had planned to launch an iPhone stock trading feature last year, but they decided not too because with the high interest rate, they were worried that people would lose money. Now, stock trading is about gaining money and losing money and the little guy generally loses more than they gain. And this I just can’t see Apple doing that. I mean, would they take the Stocks app, combine it with the Wallet app, and with Apple Pay and some sort of thing and let you do day trading app just doesn’t feel right from Apple. I think the biggest problem with this though, is if they were doing this, imagine if someone got access to your Apple ID imagine the phishing emails that would go out about your Apple stock account. This could open up a whole lot of threats.
Josh Long 13:59
That’s a good point. Yeah, your Apple ID is probably already pretty targeted, I would guess depending on what people are looking to get or to find out about you or steal from you or whatever. And this would be one of those things that would make an Apple ID and even bigger target I think for cybercriminals
Kirk McElhearn 14:19
Okay, we’re going to take a break when we come back, we’re going to talk about what’s new in iOS 17 and iPadOS 17.
Voice Over 14:26
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The Signal messaging protocol gets futuristic quantum computer hacking protection
Kirk McElhearn 15:42
Okay before we talk about iOS 17 and iPadOS 17, and we want to talk about quantum resistance. Apparently the Signal protocol is getting a post quantum makeover according to Ars Technica, essentially they are building an encryption protocol that would be strong enough that quantum computers can’t break it. At least for now.
Josh Long 16:04
By the way, we have a great article on the Intego Mac Security blog about secure private messenger apps. Signal is my personal favorite. I recommend Threema but I don’t really know anybody who uses it. Signal has pretty wide adoption. WhatsApp has a really wide adoption, especially in some countries. And WhatsApp also uses the Signal protocol. According to this article, I wasn’t aware of this. But apparently Google’s RCS also uses the Signal protocol for encryption. All of those Signal, WhatsApp and RCS which is what Android devices use to communicate securely with each other, they will all potentially get this update in the near future. So what is this protocol update? Well, there’s an encryption protocol called elliptic curve Diffie-Hellman, or ECDH for short. And it’s supposed to be quantum resistant. So that if we get quantum computers at some point in the relatively near future, you wouldn’t be able to break that encryption. This is good news. Is it really important right now? Probably not really. But it’s good to know that they’re already building this in even though we don’t have quantum computers yet.
Our favorite features in iOS 17 and iPadOS 17
Kirk McElhearn 17:16
Okay, so iOS 17 and iPadOS 17. We have an article on the Intego Mac Security blog about the top 12 new features. And what’s really interesting is, I want to say there aren’t a lot of new features. But there’s nothing that really stands out. That’s really exciting. I welcome our new operating systems where we don’t get too many new features every year, where we don’t have to relearn how to do things, where Apple may be spending more time on the back end to get rid of bugs, and rather than, you know, coming out with flashy things. But there are a few flashy things. I’ve got my iPhone, on my desk on a charger in standby mode. And I think this is cool. Standby mode is when you put the iPhone in portrait mode, if it’s connected to a MagSafe charger, it will display a different interface, basically a clock, or a clock and Widgets, and you can choose from Widgets that are on the phone. So these are existing Widgets that can display on the phone anyway, you can choose to have Siri automatically display Widgets according to the time of day and what you do, you can cycle through them. But the coolest thing happened just before we started recording, and I hadn’t seen this yet, I got a message from a friend of mine. And I got the notification on my Mac before my phone, which was a bit weird because it goes from the phone to the Mac. And then on the iPhone in standby mode, his avatar showed up, the avatar slid over to the right. And then you got this text displaying the message, kind of like the text you get on Car Play, right. And I thought that was really cool. So even if I’m not paying attention, even if my Mac’s off, I’m not paying attention to anything, my eyes will be attracted by the movement. And I can read the message relatively easily. I haven’t seen any of these live activities in standby mode yet. It was raining earlier. And I don’t know why it didn’t show up. We probably should have. But I think standby mode is cool to put. If you’re working if you’re at a desk if you’re in a stationary place. Remember, it’s got to be on a MagSafe charger that’s plugged in. So it’s not going to work just leaning it up against a wall or something.
Josh Long 19:18
Now, does this only work if you have an always on display? Or are there other iPhone models that this will work with?
Kirk McElhearn 19:24
That’s a good question. Josh. I wish you’d asked me before we started recording and I would have been able to come up with an answer. My guess is it doesn’t matter. The fact that it has to be on a charger means that it needs to have that extra power. So I would assume that it doesn’t need an always on display. Some of the examples that Apple shows are like playing music you get the kind of interface you get in CarPlay is the best example where you have the album more to the left, and then the play controls to the right. So you have a choice of different clocks. You can choose the colors. It’s pretty customizable. It’s pretty nice. So I’ve got one now with the clock, the date and the temperature. Really boring. I really don’t see How many of these Widgets are going to be useful, but maybe, if I were playing music on my iPhone, say listening on headphones, I would want to be able to control it like that. You can choose to have photos display, you can choose a whole bunch of different things. I think this is the kind of feature that’s eye candy, but practical.
Josh Long 20:15
Not everyone has a MagSafe charger, I have an old Qi charger, but I don’t have an official like Apple MagSafe charger. And that one really slow Qi charger that I have is not one that I really use, because it’s so slow. So unfortunately, I’m not really going to benefit from this feature, probably unless I get an actual MagSafe charger.
Kirk McElhearn 20:37
Well, I have a MagSafe charging disc. I’ll link to an article we have about MagSafe devices on the Intego Mac Security blog, I had bought a MagSafe charging disc. And when I saw about standby mode, I bought one of these, it’s a Belkin stand that you unfold, and it leans back at an angle when you slipped the MagSafe charging disc into it, because I thought that this would be a good idea. But you’re still talking, I think $40. $30 or $40 for the MagSafe disc, and 15 or 20 for the stand. So it’s not cheap, you can buy a number of these types of devices on the Apple online store in retail stores. on Amazon, there are all sorts of them. But it does have to be MagSafe. So it is, in some ways, it’s a limitation. But it’s also to prevent you from using up your battery. Because the display is bright and showing things and maybe it’s cycling through photos, or showing music you’re playing. In any case, I think it’s kind of neat. I like it.
Josh Long 21:30
Let’s go to my favorite one. I think of the new batch we’ve got live voicemail. I haven’t personally seen this yet in action. But I have seen other people share about this somebody, someone shared a screenshot on social media the other day saying that, hey, I got this spam call. And it started, you know, transcribing this message. And I was just able to immediately block it. Like, how cool is that? Like what a nice feature that is.
Kirk McElhearn 21:56
I don’t get that many calls. I don’t get a lot of spam calls are far fewer here than in the US apparently. I would generally answer my phone. I know that Americans just don’t answer their phones anymore Ever. Which is really interesting when you get public opinion polls because they’re done by telephone. And it’s only people who answer their phones. So it’s already a self selecting group. You’re all allergic to answering your phone, I don’t know. But I think the idea of the visual voicemail for me is, I’m on a call. Let’s say we’re recording this podcast and I get voicemail and I can see who it is maybe it’s important, maybe it’s not, or you’re in a meeting and you get a phone call. And maybe it’s you’ve got to go pick up your kid at school. But you can’t take the call at least you’ll see it there. And you’ll be able to react and say excuse me, I have to leave this boring meeting which is 87 PowerPoint slides. So I can see that it’s really useful. But again, it depends on you know how many calls you get and how many people leave voicemail.
Josh Long 22:49
That’s actually a really good example scenario. Again, maybe this is a US centric thing I don’t know. But most people it seems like text instead of calling and leaving a voicemail these days.
Kirk McElhearn 22:59
Okay, I’m really happy about the better AutoCorrect and predictive text and also the improved dictation. I’ve been using dictation I’ve mentioned many times on this show for more than 20 years, I’ve always thought that dictation was useful. And testing out iOS 17, iPadOS 17 and macOS Sonoma, the improvements are I don’t want to say exponential, but they’re they’re remarkable. They are improvements that take it up to a next level. The predictive text is really interesting, because it’s no longer like what you see those three little things on the gray background above the keyboard, it’s actually typing words. And if you press the spacebar, it fills in the word and if you don’t want to, you can tap it and correct it. I’m finding it more useful on the Mac than I am on iOS and iPadOS because I do more typing on the Mac, I’m finding that I’m typing articles with macOS Sonoma. And I’m typing a few letters of a word. Oh, look at that in great showing me the end of the word, I can save six keystrokes and press the spacebar. It’s a new reflex to develop. If you have words that are worn like “information”, right, I N F O and already it’s completing an I N F O space. And you’re going to develop a reflex kind of a shorthand that certain words, particularly if you use them often will be auto completed like that.
Josh Long 24:22
Right. I haven’t used these very much yet. And I haven’t been using the macOS Sonoma beta but Microsoft Edge or at least Edge Canary. I don’t know if this is in the regular edition of Microsoft Edge. But they’ve got a very similar predictive typing feature that I’ve been using a lot in the past several weeks. As this feature has started to roll out, I can see how this can be a really, really useful feature both on iOS with iOS 17, or iPadOS if you use that for writing a lot, and also for macOS Sonoma when that comes out next week.
Kirk McElhearn 24:56
That’s right. macOS Sonoma’s next week. A quick mention about battery life for iOS 17. There have been articles such as this one from Apple insider, which says iOS 17 is probably hitting your battery hard today. But that’s expected. I saw this on my iPhone after the first update. Now I updated to the release candidate of the beta of iOS 17, a week before it came out. But I saw it that week, I saw it on my Apple Watch, when I updated that the first few days the battery went down a lot. But it’s normal, the whole battery charging algorithm is recalibrating itself. So you will be using more battery, the device itself is doing more stuff, you know, when you update macOS, and all of a sudden, your device gets slow. And you might get a dialog that your Mac is optimizing or something like that. And so it’s using a lot of power. The first couple of days, everything’s getting, I don’t know reindexed and rejiggered and all that. So if you are seeing poor battery life on your iPhone, or iPad, and you’ll be hearing this episode from Thursday on, so three days after these operating systems were officially released, don’t worry, give it a week. And it’ll be fine after that.
Josh Long 26:05
And one of those things that can take a little bit of time is reindexing files as well, you’ll definitely get a message about that if you try to use Spotlight on the Mac, it may not be as obvious though, on the iPhone. So that’s just another thing that one of those background processes kind of self cleaning, self updating things, give it a week or so. And battery life should be back to normal. And part of the reason I wanted to bring this up is that there’s all these rumors every year, you hear these rumors about oh, don’t upgrade to the latest OS especially if you have not the latest phone model because it’s not optimized for older phones, and it’s gonna kill your battery life. And it’s not true. Apple’s not intentionally slowing down your phone, there was an update in the past, where Apple said that, specifically to avoid harming your battery, they would downclock it and there was a class action lawsuit and Apple gave it an extra year of iOS updates to sort of try to make up for that on the older models of phone.
Kirk McElhearn 27:07
So while you were talking, I changed my standby mode to my pets album in photos. So every minute it changes to another cat photo. So you can choose one of your photo albums and each time a minute changes. It will change the photo and you can choose you know your portraits, your landscapes, your favorites, anything that you want. I mean, this is just like endless opportunity to waste your time looking at your phone, isn’t it
Josh Long 27:33
if you want to see more pictures, or if you want to see pictures of Kirk’s cat, follow him on social media.
Kirk McElhearn 27:38
But you know, I don’t publish that many. Come on, don’t exaggerate. Just a reminder that with macOS Sonoma coming out next week on September 26, you should update your Intego software before updating to macOS Sonoma. It’s fully compatible. Update as much of your other software as you can. There is some software that’s still a little bit iffy that might warn you don’t necessarily update right away, check with any important software. For example, we use specific software to record our voices for these podcasts. And the software developer has said that the software is compatible, initial compatibility they say because they don’t want to go too far in case the release candidate changes. If you have anything that’s really production level important, hold off, but definitely update your Intego software before upgrading to macOS Sonoma,
Josh Long 28:25
Right. If there’s other software that is mission critical, it’s okay to wait a day, I would say to to upgrade to macOS Sonoma. The other advantage of doing that is you get to wait and see whether other people are having major issues on day one. I’m always in favor of for a major update like that. I’m okay with waiting a day like I know there’s a bunch of security fixes and stuff like that. But I also want to make sure that I’m not going to brick my device or some other crazy thing that might theoretically happen.
Kirk McElhearn 28:55
Okay, that’s enough for this week. Until next week, Josh, stay secure.
Josh Long 28:58
All right, stay secure.
Voice Over 29:01
Thanks for listening to the Intego Mac podcast, the voice of Max security with your host, Kirk McElhearn, and Josh long. To get every weekly episode, be sure to follow us on Apple podcasts, or subscribe in your favorite podcast app. And if you can leave a rating a like or review. Links to topics and information mentioned in the podcast can be found in the show notes for the episode at podcast.intego.com. The Intego website is also where to find details on the full line of Intego security and utility software intego.com.